EP 42 | Brad Swineheart on Developing Credibility, Presence, and Humanity Online

04.20.21 | 0 Market Scale

Brad Swineheart is the Vice President for Channel Marketing and Business Development for White Glove, a marketing company that helps financial advisors succeed in their careers. Like White Glove, Brad is dedicated to providing advisors with successful marketing methods that generate prospects and clients. He is driven to uncover the best industry strategies today and discover how successful advisors grow their practices. Brad also hosts the podcast Be Advised – Leading with Value, where he draws from his and his guests’ wealth of experience to help financial advisors realize their fullest potential.

Brad joins me today to discuss how financial advisors can cultivate their online presence and maximize the opportunities of the virtual world. He shares webinar best practices, including how financial advisors can build a connection with their webinar audiences. He defines what a “captive market” is, differentiates it from a “niche,” and reveals why financial advisors need to focus on growing a captive market through building content and credibility. He also explains why financial advisors should aim to be a guide rather than a hero for their clients and underscores the importance of being human in an online world.

“The virtual handshake happens when your prospect decides whether you’re worth talking to and try to find out everything about you even before they pick up the phone.” – Brad Swineheart

This week on The Model FA Podcast:

  • Brad’s journey from sales management to White Glove VP of Business Development
  • His advice to his younger self on entrepreneurship
  • Maximizing the opportunities in today’s virtual world
  • How financial advisors can build their online brand and presence
  • The importance of adapting to the post-COVID world
  • Why advisors need to avoid being the financial heroes or money rockstars
  • The financial advisor’s ideal client and how financial knowledge has become like Amazon
  • How figuring out where your passions are can help ease some hesitations on posting online and creating content
  • What a captive market is and why you need to focus on cultivating it
  • The difference between a captive audience and a niche
  • The value of building an online presence from a place of gratitude and appreciation

Resources Mentioned:

Connect with Brad Swineheart:

About the Model FA Podcast

The Model FA podcast is a show for fiduciary financial advisors. In each episode, our host David DeCelle sits down with industry experts, strategic thinkers, and advisors to explore what it takes  to build a successful practice — and have an abundant life in the process. We believe in continuous learning, tactical advice, and strategies that work — no “gotchas” or BS. Join us to hear stories from successful financial advisors, get actionable ideas from experts, and re-discover your drive to build the practice of your dreams. 

Did you like this conversation? Then leave us a rating and a review in whatever podcast player you use. We would love your feedback, and your ratings help us reach more advisors with ideas for growing their practices, attracting great clients, and achieving a better quality of life. While you are there, feel free to share your ideas about future podcast guests or topics you’d love to see covered. 

Our Team:
President of Model FA, David DeCelle

If you like this podcast, you will love our community! Join the Model FA Community on Facebook to connect with like-minded advisors and share the day-to-day challenges and wins of running a growing financial services firm.


Brad Swineheart  0:07 

Some of the just quick, easy things that an advisor can do to get better at webinar, no matter if it's in person or virtual, you have to have an awesome opening and it has to be about you—the why you're doing what you're doing. That is unilateral, whether it's virtual, whether it's in person. They don't want to hear about your office and your staff and your accolades and your designations; they want to hear about why you're doing it.


David DeCelle  0:34 

Welcome Model FAs, to another edition of our podcast. Super excited about our guest today, both a friend and industry peer, Brad Swinehart. So to introduce Brad in the formal way, and then I'll go about my own introduction—Brad is the VP over at White Glove in their channel marketing and business development department. He's dedicated to providing advisors with successful marketing methods to generate new prospects and clients, and also works with them to uncover the best industry strategies by discovering how advisors in the trenches today are growing their practices. He has a podcast as well, which we'll talk about, that I was fortunate enough to be a guest on recently. So a little reciprocity happening here with him on ours and me on his, so Brad, welcome to the show.


Brad Swineheart 

Hey, buddy, thanks for having me. It's great as always, to catch up and just chat with other brilliant like-minded people in the industry. So I put you high up on that list. So thanks for having me.


David DeCelle 

Appreciate it. And for those of you who are listening to the show, and you saw the title image of probably our logo, my face and Brad's face, be sure to go on our YouTube channel as well and check out the actual video recording because Brad has turned into a Viking with his new beard and hairstyle. And I think he looks great regardless, but I think it's also hilarious when he sent me his headshot, and I was like, whoa, I forgot that you look like that.


Brad Swineheart  2:10 

Well I’ll never be as good looking as you David, but I'm always trying, right. Like the old version didn't work, so I thought I would do this one. But yeah, I always say, long hair and a beard, it was never really my thing. Almost pushing 40 now, I don't even want to admit that. But this COVID, it just really just grew on me.


David DeCelle  2:26 

Pun intended. (percussion noise)


Brad Swineheart   2:27 

Yeah, that's right.


David DeCelle  2:30 

All right. Well, fully pun intended, we're gonna rock and roll now. And Brad's got the guitar behind him, so that's where we got that joke. Brad, you're over at White Glove now, but I'd love to know a little bit about your journey. So as you mentioned, you're almost 40, so you got a decent amount of work experience behind you. So with that being said, what was before White Glove? What led you to White Glove? And what are you most excited about now, working there?


Brad Swineheart  2:57 

You know, I started right out of high school, went to college for marketing, got a job in sales management; did that for a long time, managing hundreds of employees and the outside of the financial industry. And the opportunity from White Glove just totally fell in my lap. And I thought, hey, this is something new, it's fun, it's exciting. I have no idea what I'm doing. Let's try that. And I went right from Friday working with, you know, 300 people underneath me doing exactly what I said, to a basement of this financial advisor’s firm with 12 salespeople and dogs running around and I was like, what the hell did I just get myself into?


David DeCelle  3:40 

Love it. So with that being said, I guess, if you could go back to your younger self as you're going through your career, what would you go back and say to your younger self, to help get you even further than where you are right now?


Brad Swineheart  3:56 

I think most of my upbringing was just very much, you just work. My family has a very strong work ethic. That's what they do; you get up, you go to work, you put food on the table. And that's always very important. But I wish maybe younger Brad would understand that there's an entire new world out there when it comes to being an entrepreneur. And it's scarier and more risky than just going and having a job, but it's so much more rewarding; and living the life here at White Glove with two guys that just started a company in their basement, seeing that and being a part of this massive growth that we've experienced, that just fires all the cylinders in my brain to—okay, I could never go back to a nine to five, this is just not for me. And if I could instill that in a younger self, then who knows? David and I, we could be running a company together. Our third company, we could have sold the first two already.


David DeCelle  4:51 

Let’s go. We've only lived a third of our lives you know, so I think we still got time to see how the world shakes out.


Brad Swineheart  4:57 

Oh heck yeah. Heck yeah.


David DeCelle  5:00 

Love it. So I know one of the things that you're passionate about. And, quite frankly, we've had to find passion and expertise around this is, with COVID. And I don't want to talk too much about COVID, because, well, just because, but with that being said, the industry has changed in that there is a lot more work being done from a virtual standpoint, and it makes it that much more difficult for advisors to deepen relationships with their existing clients, and develop relationships with their prospects. And I said difficult, not impossible, by any means. So you certainly can do it. But I guess, with the advisors that you guys are working with, or you working with specifically and interviewing on your podcast and things like that, how are you advising them to maximize the opportunity in today's virtual environment?


Brad Swineheart  5:58 

I love that question because there's so many small facets to it that are just so important for advisors to understand. And David, you and I are the perfect example that you don't have to meet someone in person to be great friends. I mean, we've been friends for years now. And I 100% know, if I ever see you in person, because I never have, that we're gonna hug it out, grab a beer, it's gonna be a great time. And we've developed this friendship, this relationship, totally virtually. And that's through simple stuff, like being stalkable online, making sure your personality shows when you're building a brand, that type of stuff. And advisors now have so many more resources that are available to them, that they wouldn't have had in 2019, for example. I mean, just outlets like podcast, people that listen to podcast, financial related podcast, that those numbers are skyrocketing, if you just Google that. And the type of person that listens to that is an ideal type of client for an advisor. So for them to be able to build a brand, to be credible online, and to do all of that virtually, it all just works together. So, simple things, like have a professional LinkedIn page, have a business Facebook page that shows some personality to it. Run a few podcast episodes, and just Google yourself and see what comes up, because that's what your prospects are going to do. And nine times out of 10, it's going to be LinkedIn. But man, if you could get a podcast up at the top of that thing, if you could get some sort of picture of your family from Facebook on there, showing that you're a real human being—simple stuff like that, that advisors need to realize that there's no more handshake all the time, right. So the virtual handshake is behind the scenes when a prospect decides, I wonder if this David DeCelle guy is worth talking to, and they can find out anything they want about you, before they ever pick up the phone.

David DeCelle  7:47 

I agree. I think, to go back, because you and I are really good examples of this working out. So we're both active on the various social platforms, right. But I also think where a lot of advisors drop the ball is they'll put stuff out there, but they don't hang out in the crowd. So to compare that to more of a real life/in person sort of scenario, if you went to a networking event or a trade show, and at that trade show, you had your table set up, you had your signage, you had the products or services that you offer, but you didn't have anyone from your company standing at that table and actually talking with people and engaging with people, you're probably not going to get anything from having a table at that tradeshow. Whereas if instead, you had two or three people at your table that was going out and introducing yourselves to folks. You know, hey, love those shoes, where'd you get them? Or, hey, nice jacket, where'd you get that? And just kind of having those conversations with folks, you're going to have a totally different experience attending that trade show. And social media is no different. Where if you're just hanging up your signage, but you're not engaging with the people that you're connected to, via leaving comments or sliding into their messages with something of value or something encouraging or something supportive, or a question, then—you may get results. It’s going to take a hell of a lot longer. But by engaging with folks, you just speed up the relationship building process, because relationships ultimately are simply the accumulation of experiences. So you got to give people more opportunities to “experience” with you so to speak. So I guess, when it comes to the virtual space and the digital space now, is there anything that advisors, from what you gather, should stop doing from what they were doing before, based on the fact that things are more virtual? Is it an and conversation, is it an or conversation with their activities? What are your thoughts?


Brad Swineheart  9:54 

Most conversations and let's just be honest here, most conversations are just recognizing that there value in it. A lot of advisors that I spoke to in the last year, you know what, if I can't meet somebody in person, then I don't know how to close business. I don't know how to do X, Y, and Z—because that's what they're so dependent on. So I think the first hurdle is just adapting, because it's never gonna go away, right? We just rang a very loud and large bell that says, hey, you can get all the information and meet anybody you want, and you never have to leave your house, you can do it all in your pajamas. Financial information, financial knowledge is now Amazon; it will come to you, you never have to get out of the house. And absolutely in-person stuffs coming back, but that doesn't mean that you don't want to just hop on your phone and order something from Amazon today. And one thing that advisors have always done, and I totally disagree with this, is try to play the hero, try to play the rock star, try to play that, you know, if you ever went to a dinner event, and there's just signage everywhere that says how great that advisor is. And they take that mentality online, and they try to showcase how great they are. And people don't work with people that are great—people work with people that they like, and you have to be able to showcase yourself as a professional, but also that you're a real human being and that you're likeable. And let your clients, let your prospects be the hero; you should be the Miyagi of the situation, right? You should be that guy, you should be friendly, you should be approachable; and I love that thought process that if you're the hero, that means your clients are a victim, and no one wants to be a victim. No one's going to come work with you if they feel that way. So if you make them the hero, hey, we can do this together, and I'm going to help you out. I'm a real person, I'm an educator, I'm a guide; then I think that bridges a lot more gaps than it would being the rock star, being the superstar, being the hero at the other end of the spectrum.


David DeCelle  11:45 

I haven't heard that analogy in that context before, but I really like it, where if there was a hero, then there has to be a villain, so to speak. And I feel like that could be a subconscious sort of thing that prospects or clients could experience. I also feel like advisors oftentimes hesitate when it comes to posting online because they view it as a look at me type of thing, as opposed to how can you add value? How can you just share your life experiences? How can you document the things that you're doing to allow people into your lives, so to speak, so they can get to know you? I mean, people love reality TV, like, give them some of that. And there's advisors that I know that will post their accolades, and their ribbons and their designations, and all these different things, which, sure is fine, but that's just serving you and not the client. And to your point, if, we have a client and I talked about them on our last podcast episode, but he's just a good example; he built over a billion-dollar firm primarily on the fact that he loves fly fishing. And I guess rich people like to fly fish. So, that's his passion.


Brad Swineheart  12:59 

That's how we know we've made it, David. When we started fly fishing, we know like, okay, we've made it.


David DeCelle  13:05 

Well, I think the first step is joining someone who fly fishes. And then once we host a fly fishing event, then we know we made it.


Brad Swineheart 

Okay, yep, that's true.


David DeCelle 

Anyone can tag along. I think it was just super interesting that he'll take them fly fishing, go to trade shows, go to events, he's going to be launching a podcast about that. So it's figuring out what it is that you're passionate about, and making sure that you remain humble and grateful along the way, and suppress your ego so that you're not a looking at me type of person. I feel like a lot of advisors struggle with discerning between the two. And therefore, they experience paralysis by analysis and just don't do it. So there's two resources that just came to mind that I want to share with some folks. If you haven't read Gary Vaynerchuk’s book Crushing It, that's a really good book to learn how and why social media is so effective with your branding and your content marketing; accompanied by if you Google, how to make 64 pieces of content in a day, Gary Vaynerchuk also put out a 270-page slide deck that goes through every social platform, how they create content for that. And then what you start doing is you start finding people that you look up to that you know of, and connect with them on the various social platforms and just learn through osmosis, through consuming their stuff, and then just taking action. So if you go to my Instagram page, just type in David DeCelle, and you scroll all the way to the bottom. You look at that, and they're like, there's like cringe worthy videos and posts and stuff like that from when I first started. And who knows, maybe some people think that my posts still are cringe worthy, but I think that there's been some progress in terms of professionalism with the video editing and things like that. But you have to start somewhere so it's just a matter of taking action. Brad, one thing you were referencing in our email exchange was the phrase “captive marketing,” and I have no idea what that is, or at least, maybe I know what it is, and you have a different phrase for it. But I'm very intrigued with what that is, and I have a follow up question once you're done answering that.


Brad Swineheart  15:12 

Yeah, so the idea around captive marketing is kind of putting all of those pieces together from a marketing funnel, from a branding perspective, and from a credibility perspective, so that you're not just getting leads, and then trying to make sales, but you're actually nurturing that conversion process. And what ends up happening is everyone has a social sphere, and an influential sphere, they can influence. And that's kind of your captive audience, if you will. And to be able to market to that group, you need credibility, you need value, you need content, and then you use marketing to grow that. And then ultimately, it all works together to turn from a lead to a prospect to a to a call to a conversion. And the way you get that is, you get that through having that captive audience that will pay attention and see value in what you have to say.


David DeCelle  16:08 

So I don't want to be too assumptive. But is it a captive audience similar as like a niche that you're going after? So call it physicians, call it retirees, call it business owners? Is that one the same before I make my next comment?


Brad Swineheart  16:20 

You know what, it's a little bit different than that, just because that might be your target audience. You might love working with physicians; that's not necessarily your captive market. Your captive market is when David puts out a post, and David does something of value, who is listening to that? Who is interacting with that and who sees value in that? And what you want to be able to do is increase that sphere of influence to have more people in that captive audience, that when you say something, they listen, and that there's credibility behind that. And there's so much available now in a virtual setting, that advisors can really do that effectively if they're using all the proper channels.


David DeCelle  17:00 

Okay. So, again, I want to make sure I understand it, and our listeners understand it. So this is almost like when I first started posting, and my mom and my aunt my uncle liked my posts, and those are the only three likes, and then you fast forward to today and whoever's engaging with those posts and viewing those now, you're saying that that captive sphere is increasing in that example, but am I thinking about this right?


Brad Swineheart  17:28 

Absolutely. Yes, yep.


David DeCelle  17:30 

Okay, cool. That brings up another thing that I want to share with folks is oftentimes people don't put themselves out there and actually create content to try and add value, because you run the risk of being judged by other people, which I think is an opportunity to improve in and of itself. So if you haven't read the book, The Four Agreements, it's a great book to read. And it talks about the fact that you shouldn't be affected by the judgment of other people or their opinions. But inevitably, it's an emotion that people deal with. So how I tend to explain this is you have three circles of people. Your first circle is what I referenced, your mom, uncle, aunt, dad, whoever, where they're going to be supportive of you. And then you got your friends who are also in that immediate circle, and some of them may be supportive, and some of them may bust your chops, because like, that's their job is to keep you in check. And, you know, make sure that you're being serious about what you're looking to do. And then you have your second circle of people who are friends from afar, you may not hang out with them every single day. So Brad, you and I would be in each other's second circle, to where we're super supportive of one another; depending on what people do for work in that second circle, maybe they're starting to do business with you, maybe it's not relevant, maybe they're making an introduction. But either way, they're supportive, they're always liking your stuff, and they're always sending you words of encouragement. Then you have your third circle of people that you don't know and they don't know you, and they come across you and you're immediately edified in their mind and in their eyes, because they see that what you're putting out there is super helpful, and they start doing business with you, and they start referring you, and then that trickles down into the second circle more so than it was initially. And then ultimately, the first circle turns to being more supportive and making introductions and potentially doing business with you if they're in the relevant market to do so. But you have to kind of like go through that evolution. And the first circle is the most difficult to break through because again, people are gonna bust your chops and keep you in check. I mean, we've all probably gotten the comments when we put ourselves out there, or at least I have, but if you can break through that, gosh, people are super supportive and helpful. I feel like a lot of advisors can get stuck there and then they'll retreat immediately and totally give up on that strategy.


Brad Swineheart  19:44 

I love that and that's so funny. I'm having flashbacks when I first started posting videos on Facebook and Instagram and my mom was liking it and then she would text me; she's like, how come you were looking off to the side when you were talking to him?


Unknown Speaker  19:57 

You’re like, mom, that's not the point!


Brad Swineheart  19:59 

Yeah, I’m like, c’mon, give me a break here. So yeah, you're absolutely right, to build that credibility to reach all the way out there, it's totally cyclical, and then it all, it all comes back. And it's sometimes the people closest to you when you start something new, they're going to be supportive, but then they also have that, like, they already have an image of you in their mind and this doesn't match that. So that's sometimes the hardest circle to break of, oh, wait a minute, David’s this great guy that's publishing this and this and this. One of the things that you brought up a few points ago was accolades and that sort of stuff. And how do you position that? Because a lot of advisors, they will look at it to say, my accolades, my designations, the awards that I've won, that builds my credibility. But at the other point, if you're posting about that stuff, then that makes you unlikable. So how do you marry that? And the answer is almost too simple; it’s people need to find those accolades about you. You can tell them everything you want over here on the value side, but when they look you up, they want to be able to find those accolades. No one wants to be the guy carrying around his own book that has the Amazon bestseller on the front, right. But if David and I are talking and he's, oh, yeah, I talked about that in my book, or whatever. And then I was like, ooh, I'm gonna stalk his book and find out what it is, and then it's an Amazon bestseller—now I feel he’s credible, oh, my gosh, that's awesome. Whereas if he’s sitting there holding it in every interview that he does, and every headshot, then it's like, okay, this guy, I tell you. So it's just, there's a point of discovery there that allows you to gain credibility. And advisors have to understand that their prospects 100% are online, they 100% will look you up.



Hey, Model FAs, I know you're enjoying this conversation. But I wanted to take a quick break to talk to you about the Model FA Accelerator. This is a unique collaboration between us and you, where we help you build a financial advising practice that you can be proud of. We focus on the foundational concepts around how to pick a niche or a specialization, how to price your services, how to construct an offer that people are going to buy, and then how to market it and sell it in a way that will get people to sign on the dotted line and become clients of your firm, all while giving you the information to scale, and set up workflows and operational processes that will allow you to reclaim your time and build a practice that doesn't run you. So if you'd like to hear more about that, go to www.ModelFA.com/accelerator or www.ModelFA.com. Hover over Work With Us and click on Accelerator. Hope to see in the program.


David DeCelle  22:30 

I agree with everything that you just said. I think it was an interesting way to put it in terms of, put out the value and let them find the good stuff. I do think though that if, and I’d like to get your perspective on this, if you are entirely genuine in what I'm about to say, I think it could still be effective. Which is, if you come from a place of gratitude and service, and hey, this wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for everyone that gave me the opportunity to serve them in their financial planning needs. If in your tone, or in your words, you're actually sincere and not just acting, I feel like that's a way in which you could make your connections aware of some of the successes that you had, without coming off as egotistical and cocky. But again, it will come out in your tone, if you're not being sincere. I mean, would you agree with that?


Brad Swineheart  23:25 

I totally agree with that. I mean, if you're thanking and you're giving out accolades to the people that helped you see the success that you're at, that's totally different than praising awards that you've gotten, how great you are. It’s all in that message in that tone. But are you appreciative of what you have and the people that helped you get there? Or are you being braggadocious about who you are and your skills? And those are two totally different messages. If you're an advisor, and you don't know the difference, then I would just stay away, stay away from it, or have your mom look at it and see what she has to say.


David DeCelle  23:59 

And I promise you, when you put yourself out there, especially on video, when you first shoot the video, you're gonna sound funny, and you're gonna look funny, and you're probably the only one that thinks that. So just rip the band aid off and post it because, other people, if what you have to say is good and valuable, they're gonna appreciate it. So this past year, Brad, both of our companies have had to pivot massively from in person events, seminars, over to the webinar space. And I know, when we were chatting, you'd mentioned that, obviously, outside of the obvious, what's the difference, in person versus online. But if I'm an advisor and I'm looking to grow my business, and I want seminars or webinars, basically I want a presentation with an audience to be used as a business development tool. What are the things that I need to take into consideration in terms of the differences between those two setups?


Brad Swineheart  24:55 

That’s a very interesting question. A lot of the same ideas that we've already talked about, translate into a virtual presentation. A little bit of my background, when I got into this industry, a big part of White Glove service is to coach and help advisors be better at presenting, because one of the things we realize is a lot of advisors just aren't comfortable in front of crowds. So I've had just an absolute awesome experience learning from Frank Maselli, Pat Quinn, Paul Karasik, some of the best speaking coaches in the industry, who we've hired to train our advisors. I've got to go and learn directly from them, and that's helped me immensely in my career. And I had to do the same thing; I used to go speak in person and now I have to do it virtually to a computer monitor. So it's kind of in that same boat as the advisors. But some of the key things that immediately turn advisors off to doing webinars compared to seminars is that it's hard without direct feedback. It's a little bit easier now, because Dave and I are looking at each other; I can tell if he gets bored, or if I'm droning on too much, but when there's nothing, there's nothing. If I'm not confident in what I'm having to say, then I'm going to waver and some of the just quick, easy things that an advisor can do to get better at webinar, no matter if it's in person or virtual, you have to have an awesome opening and it has to be about you—the why you're doing what you're doing. That is unilateral, whether it's virtual, whether it's in person. They don't want to hear about your office and your staff and your accolades and your designations; they want to hear about why you're doing it. So you got 60 seconds when you first start, and that's the same whether you're doing it virtual or you're doing it in person. But some things that are a little bit different when it comes to a webinar: keep it shorter, 45 minutes; you got to realize that it's absolutely not rude if someone gets up and walks out of a webinar; if they're playing over here on Facebook, it's your job to keep engaged. So part of that is just shorten up the content. Forty-five minutes is probably max. And then it's almost the exact opposite slide mentality when it comes to in person. In person, 20 slides, man, that's enough. For a webinar, if you have six bullet points, those should be six different slides, because the presentation is what they're looking at. So you want to keep that constantly moving. And then the last thing I'll say, and this is just a huge benefit to doing virtual compared to in person is you can consistently put your calendar up there, you can do polls for interaction, and they can book meetings with you right as right as you get that hook in. If you're doing a presentation, anybody doing a presentation knows, you can't close at the end, you have to close throughout till the end, there's no you're getting the last man standing at the end. And virtually you can do that throughout. You can put up your calendar, if you have questions about that book a meeting, if you have questions about that book a meeting. You can do that the whole time, and really optimize your audience there to turn those into a secondary meeting, which is obviously the goal to most of those seminars and webinars.


David DeCelle  28:03 

What are you suggesting advisors do as a complement to the webinars itself? So part of the benefit of the in-person events, outside of the fact that there's just something about seeing people in human form that helps with the relationship. There's the beginning and the end of the seminar, chit chat in between as people are walking in or out, where a lot of relationship building happens. So how do you suggest advisors build relationships with people that are attending webinars as opposed to seminars?


Brad Swineheart  28:31 

One of the things is being human, being likable, and that's just presentation skills 101. But also, one thing that advisors often overlook is being stalkable. Part of the double-edged sword when it comes to a webinar is if David's on a webinar, and he's talking, I'm thinking I might work with this guy, the first thing I'm doing during the webinar is looking them up on LinkedIn to see if he's credible. We don't have that in person handshake anymore, but when you have a very robust, credible social media presence, if you've been a podcast guest, if you have valuable content on LinkedIn and Facebook, all the things that we talked about before, that almost replaces that handshake, if you will. And it's all benefit because the guards are high when a prospect comes to see someone in person; they're worried about getting sold, they're a little concerned that, hey, this could be high pressure. All of that’s gone. I can push that little X button and be out of here and then no one will even know. So their guards are much lower. So as long as you're stalkable and credible and likeable, then you can actually be ahead of the game compared to where you were at an in person event.


David DeCelle  29:46 

I think the stalk-ability is a great point. I also think that similar to the calls to action that you're mentioning in terms of, hey, if you want to know more about that book meeting, this book meeting, this book meeting. I think that you can weave in, hey, I actually shot an additional video on this topic. If you just go and connect with me on this platform or follow me on this platform or friend me on this platform, whatever the lingo is on a per platform basis, I think that has a lot of power to it as well. Or, I'm just kind of like thinking of this off top my head, what if you took basically the topics of a webinar, and say the webinars 45 minutes and say that there's five topics. Let's call it 15 minutes for easy math, five topics. So what you could do is call it five 10-minute videos, or maybe some part ones and part twos. So you have ten 5-minute videos and what you do is you shoot those independent videos, right? But then you upload them to YouTube, and on YouTube you put together a playlist so people can go as they please. And then maybe with the email list, you can say, hey, if you're interested in learning more about this topic, here's a quick five-minute video. And if you like that one, there's more on that playlist, feel free to listen some more. So just figuring out ways in which you can be the expert, as opposed to them going and looking up taxes and retirement or social security oriented stuff just on Google, and going and finding someone else and building a relationship with someone else. If you can just start talking about that stuff and position yourself as the expert, I feel like when they ultimately meet with you, if they've done their digging, and there's been stuff to dig on and stuff of value, they're already 80 or 90% of the way there in terms of making a decision on whether or not they want to become a client. From my perspective, anyways.


Brad Swineheart  31:46 

I love that. And one of the things that some of our most successful advisors do is utilizing video in their follow up sequence. And there's services like BombBomb, but you can do it very easily with a Zoom video or whatever. But just shoot a video and say, hey, David, thanks for being on the webinar today. If you miss part of it, here's the video, we dive a little deeper into taxes and I'd love to talk to you about your individual situation. And you send that out. And it was real popular in the sales world there for a very hot minute where you would shoot a video for someone and you'd write their name on a piece of paper and you hold it up, and that's the still, it says David on there. Who’s not going to click that and read it, right? I don't do that anymore, because that was kind of like two years ago it was big, and everybody was doing it. But the consumers that an advisor is talking to have never seen that before. They're not in the sales world like you and I are. And if you could really do it genuinely, back to what you were saying, if you could do it in a genuine way; you know, hey, thank you for taking your time, I really want to make sure you learn these important strategies, Social Security, blah, blah, blah. That can be very impactful and it does, it brings that human touch back to what could be a very impersonal session.


David DeCelle  32:57 

I agree. And I know BombBomb has a ton of features, and the Zoom video, I guess it depends on how long the video is, but I've run into issues where the file’s too large or whatever. So another lightweight version that we've come across is called Loom, l-o-o-m. So loom.com, super lightweight, super easy to use. So if you don't need or want all the features of a BombBomb, Loom is a good alternative as well. So just want to toss that out there. So the last question before we get to the second segment, which is the after-hours segment. So I'm asking all of our guests, Brad, and this is a little bit of a selfish ask on my end, as well as wanting to promote learning outside of our industry or at least consuming outside information, is asking what people's favorite books are. I'm looking to build up my reading list. So you had sent me your favorite book, the title of it, I mean, yesterday and because of a little bit of a psycho, I already listened to it. And the title is Survivor and am I pronouncing his name right? Chuck Palahniuk.


Brad Swineheart  34:08 

Yeah, I think so anyway; sounds good to me.


David DeCelle  34:11 

So, Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor, and talk about don't judge a book by its cover. There's this like fighter jet on the cover, if I'm not mistaken. And then it says Survivor, so I'm like, oh, nice, this is gonna be a good personal development book. I love personal development books. And as I kept listening to it, I'm like, I don't see where this is developing me as a person, but it's kind of a really interesting and, at the same time, weird story; and then I started thinking back to when I first watched Inception, the movie, and I was like, I don't get what's going on. And then, I found myself at certain points in this book, but it was like captivating my attention because I was constantly trying to figure it out. So the gist of it from my understanding is there's a guy who's survived a cult, who's now back in civilization, so to speak. And he either knows people or he himself can like predict the future, and he's got a bunch of these crazy stories. So with that being said, Brad, I want to know why it's your favorite book, and if you can do a good job of somewhat summarizing it for me, because I'm still a little bit lost on it.


Brad Swineheart  35:16 

Oh, my gosh, you just have to read it. And Chuck's probably my favorite author just in general, and it’s all fiction, but it's such an interesting way to tell a story. And what I think he does really well, and you can absolutely take this and apply it to business, what he does really well is he will put in so much information into a short sentence. And what he'll do is he'll reference this and this and this and all these very intricate points to get a bigger, unrelated point across. And I just love reading that stuff, because your brain is just working the whole time, you're just firing on all cylinders. And it's just for me, reading a lot of the development books, sometimes you get that same speak. And it's just, okay, this is what we're going to talk about, this what we're going to learn; and this is just totally removed from that, you're almost digesting this, like chewing through cardboard to understand exactly what's all going on. To me, it's a little bit entertaining, but it's also just mentally refreshing to see different aspects. And the story is just so muddled and it comes together and it's just awesome. Definitely not like your developing, this is going to get me amped up, this is going to get me better at sales sort of thing; but it absolutely just, you read it, you interpret it, you marinate on it, and it just, it's awesome. And all his books are just totally weird and off the beaten path.


David DeCelle  36:38 

Well, I was gonna say, to your point, there's so many different stories within the story where I'm trying to keep track of it. And what I would say is it certainly did like captivate my attention, because I needed to figure it out, because a lot of the personal development books that I'll listen to now, they're all variations of one another to a certain extent, so that I can listen to them and kind of get the gist of it pretty quick as I go. Yeah, I heard that before and it's solidifying now. I heard that before and it’s solidifying now. This was totally brand new, and I was like, whoa, usually I'm walking around listening to an audio book, and I’m like, I gotta sit down and really pay attention to this. I need to be able to say something on the show tomorrow.


Brad Swineheart  37:20 

You could ask, what's your favorite development book, and I probably would have given you something a little bit different.


David DeCelle  37:24 

No, but this is the whole point, Brad. It broadens my horizons and anyone else's horizons who chooses to read it. Because, I haven't read fiction books, really, so it was nice little change of pace.


Brad Swineheart  37:38 

Well, I hope you make it through it and you enjoy it.


David DeCelle  37:41 

Thanks, I did it. It's done. I finished it.


Brad Swineheart  37:45 

It's done. It's done. Well, now you got to do I, maybe one more time?


David DeCelle  37:47 

Yeah, so I actually understand it now. Well, Brad, appreciate you being on the show. Always a pleasure. So I'm going to wrap up this segment. But before I do so, where can they find you personally and where can they find White Glove?


Brad Swineheart  38:02 

Yep, WhiteGlove.com. We like to keep it very simple. And if you're an advisor looking for growth strategies, absolutely check us out, we got some really interesting services. And you know what I try to make myself very easily and stalkable. So just look up Brad Swineheart on LinkedIn and hit me up, I'm always happy to help out as an advisor, if you got questions on anything you're doing, feel free to just reach out. I have very much a go-giver mentality, and you never have to do business with me or White Glove and I'd still love to chat and connect. So yeah, absolutely LinkedIn is the easiest place to hit me up.


David DeCelle  38:37 

Awesome. Appreciate that. And for all the Model FAs that are listening now, what we've been doing, if you've listened to our last couple of episodes, is we would really appreciate if number one, if you found value in this, share this with another person that you know in the industry. Number two, if you would be so kind as to write a review, we’ll continue to get our rankings up so more and more people in the industry will ultimately see it. And then if you could take a screenshot of that review that you left, and shoot me a text at 978-228-2338. Again, 978-228-2338, you'll be entered into a drawing to win some free coaching from us. So I'd very much appreciate their review; that number by the way, I'll get that personally. And then on a daily basis in the mornings, you’ll get a little inspirational message to get your day going off to a good start. So again, 978-228-2338, and this is the closing of this segment, and now we're heading to the after-hours.


So, Brad, I'm excited.


Brad Swineheart  39:57 

That's was good. That was fun.


David DeCelle  39:57 

Thanks, man. I mean I always have a blast bantering with you and giving each other some friendly elbows here and there. So it's always a good time, but I got a few questions that I'm so excited to ask, and I'm saving the best one for last. So if you think some of these are a little risque, then the last one's pretty good. So first one is I'm always curious to know, and I really want our listeners to get the chance to get to know us as humans, as opposed to professionals. So looking back on your entire career, what's the most embarrassing thing that's happened to you? I know that there's a bunch, but just what's one?


Brad Swineheart  40:32 

Oh man. Yeah, I'm trying to think of a good one that's relatable, probably like, I'm sure the beginning of my career, like getting in front of audiences and doing public speaking, I was just dull and boring and awful. But it's not super—it’s embarrassing for me, but that's not a funny story to tell. Let me think of a really juicy, funny one. Let me ruminate on that for a minute and I’ll give you a good one for sure.


David DeCelle  40:48 

In the meantime, I shared one on the prior episode about driving with Uber and picking up a client by accident and being mortified; dude, it was terrible. But another one, and this is going back to like my high school days, so hopefully, you're not judging me on this, but I’m at a boat detailing and repair business. And it was myself and my best friend, and we were crushing it, as 16-17-18 year old kids bringing in 20 grand a summer cash each, just having a blast, right? And so we tried dip for the first time, or at least I did. And mind you, I put a lip in and we were on a dock, and so the dock is going like this [up and down motion with hand], right? It's flowing up and down. And then my mind is kind of floating up and down. It was the first time I consumed any tobacco products, and I just got sick everywhere. And I was out for the count, couldn't finish the job, and I haven't had a lip like that, had a dip like that since because it was just a mortifying experience. So I'm actually glad that happened because it saved me from some mouth cancer maybe, but that was an embarrassing story of mine when I was a teenager.


Brad Swineheart  41:57 

Oh, man, I have like the mirrored story. We used to work construction, and we were out in the middle of summer throwing bricks in this parking lot, building a structure, and the guy's like, hey, why don’t you throw a dipper in. And I was like, yeah, sure, why not? I'm one of the guys. Let's do it. I stick that thing in and, man, I must have looked ridiculous. I'm like all woozy. Like what is going on? And everyone's looking like, what's the new guy over there? What's his problem? Oh, man. Yeah, that's probably saved me some mouth cancer too. So that's just not for me.


David DeCelle  42:27 

Right. Exactly. So would you rather have nosy neighbors or noisy neighbors?


Brad Swineheart  42:33 

I'm gonna say noisy.


David DeCelle  42:36 



Brad Swineheart  42:36 

I guess I'm a pretty open person. Like, I'll leave all my windows and stuff open, and there’s probably embarrassing things that I do throughout the day that if my neighbors are real nosy, they could absolutely find out and I don't think I need all my neighbors knowing that. Noisy, that's okay, I guess, if they're not screaming at each other all day. Maybe like a jam, a good beat here and there, that could that could get me going.


David DeCelle  42:59 

Yeah, just go join the party. Clearly they're having fun.


Brad Swineheart 

That's right. Yeah.


David DeCelle 

Would you rather be an unknown Major League Baseball player or a famous badminton star?


Brad Swineheart  43:11 

I think I'm gonna be a famous badminton star. Oh, 100%. Because if you're a famous badminton star, which I don't know what that would look like, but if you were, you're probably making a good amount of money. And you're probably, if you're famous and you're popular in that circle, I mean, man, that's good enough. I'm not a giant baseball fan, so if I was just mediocre and unknown at baseball, you know, I’d rather be making the big bucks over there at badminton and crushing in. I think that’d be fine.


David DeCelle  43:34 

The money that you make through badminton, you'd probably be able to buy a brand new badminton set.


Brad Swineheart  43:44 

It's true. Yeah. [both laughing] Just to set this up guys, he texted me at 7:30 this morning and said, oh, I’ve got a good one, I’ve got a good one I’m going to ask you on after-hours. Bring it on, is what I replied.


David DeCelle  43:47 

And then finally, so if you had to choose between going out naked all the time, or having your thoughts appear in thought bubbles above your head for everyone to read, which would you prefer?


Brad Swineheart  44:02 

I'm just going to be naked. No one needs to see what's in my brain here. That's totally fine.


David DeCelle  44:08 

I'm the opposite. I'm like, these people need to know the truth. They need to know the truth. And you can't be given up all the goods right away.


Brad Swineheart  44:15 

I'm just thinking, like sitting in meetings where people are talking and I'm thinking of 17 different things that don't have anything to do with the meeting. If you're naked all the time, think of the amount of pressure that's going to keep you—I love being physically fit. Like, that's it. You have to be good looking all the time. You know, I mean, that's just motivation right there. They used to say, Arnold Schwarzenegger always struggled with his legs. He couldn't grow legs. So what he started doing is wearing really, really short shorts to the gym, and the people would make fun of them all the time. So he just constantly worked them and he would never give up on it. So that's what I would think like, man, if I have to be naked all the time, I'm gonna be ripped. I'm gonna look like that Viking we've been talking about. I'm gonna get a face tattoo or something. I'm gonna be huge, it’ll be great.


David DeCelle  44:59 

I love that. Brad, I appreciate you hanging out in the ringer during after-hours. I got some good nuggets out of our conversation. Hopefully our listeners did as well, and we'll do this again soon. And either way we'll continue to be friends from afar. You're welcome to come to Florida, as it warms up.


Brad Swineheart  45:18 

I’m coming down, man.


David DeCelle  45:19 

Yeah. Come visit and have some fun.


Brad Swineheart  45:21 

All right, brother. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.